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The Flash cameos universe designations

Hello, I have been working on adding the actors/cameos in The Flash and am thinking of universe designations for said characters.

Some are more straight-forward and commonly accepted in general like Earth-66 for Adam West's Batman and Earth-78 for Christopher Reeve's Superman and Helen Slater's Supergirl, but I do not know where to go for Teddy Sears' Jay Garrick, George Reeves' Superman, Superman Lives' Nicholas Cage's Superman, and George Clooney's Batman.

I am hesitant to give the final Earth that Flash ends up in as Earth-97 as it seems to be a mix of that earth and the DCEU Earth. As Batman (Earth-89) explained, time travel acts on a fulcrum and changes the past and the future. So it seems that Barry's final intervention created a completely different timeline to any previously established one, whether featured in DCEU projects or previous non-DCEU projects.

Thoughts?

Bryschec (talk) 00:17, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

In the German wiki I solved the problem in such a way that the individual characters got their earth number after their first screen appearance. Like Superman (Earth 78), or Batman (Earth 66). Thus, the Cage-Superman is on Earth 98, George Reeves is on Earth 51, and Teddy Sears as "Flash" is on Earth 15 (First appearance in The Flash season 2). --Sir Boromir (talk) 08:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I support the idea of using the commonly accepted designations, this way we can change the separator from Flash (unknown universe) to Earth-Prime, using the Earth-68 for Cage is a good idea, but for Reeves it's better to use Earth-96 as it was established in the Arrowverse. For Jay Garrick, a separator isn't necessary since he is the only character with that name, we just need to display "Flash" in the title. In Clooney's case, I was considering the possibility of using a placeholder designator like "Earth altered by Flash" or "Timeline altered by Flash".--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 20:04, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't find the reason to use Earth-68 or 98 for Cage if the name of his universe has never been designated. The same with George Reeves and Garrick of Earth-51 (both are on the same Earth). In the case of Grant Gustin's Flash, the idea of calling his universe "Earth-Prime" is reasonable although his earth was never specified within the DCEU, but it wouldn't be bad given the other universe designations. The same case with Clooney. For me, this is the DCEU Mutiverse (yet) designations.

Description	Designation (within DCEU)	Designation (outside DCEU)
Main universe/timeline	Earth-1	Earth-1
Timeline altered by Flash	Flashpoint	Flashpoint (Burtonverse)? (I honestly don't know if the universe was created by Barry or Earth-89 did exist before)
Grant Gustin's Earth (Arrowverse)	Never speciffied	Earth-Prime
Christopher Reeve's Earth (Doonerverse)	Never speciffied	Earth-96 (I don't know where you got it from Earth-78)
Nicolas Cage's Earth	Never speciffied (could use "Fight against Spider Beast" as placeholder)	Never speciffied (Superman Lives was planned to set on Keaton's Earth originally)
Adam West's Earth	Never speciffied	Earth-66
George Reeves' Earth	Never speciffied (could use "Black and White" or "Grey Serial" as placeholder)	Never speciffied
George Clooney's Earth/Restored timeline	Never speciffied (could use "Restored timeline" or "Post-Flashpoint" as placeholder)	Earth-97 according with Arrowverse

I personally like more the idea of calling it Post-Flashpoint. --Franklin J. Wayne (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with those proposed placeholder titles, for George Reeves I think Gray Serial is more concise, and Post-Flashpoint for Clooney sounds good.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 23:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Of course, some universes were not named. But it is more than obvious that the different earths got the numbers in which they had their premiere in the cinema or on TV. See Earth 66 for Batman (Adam West). Christopher Reeve and Helen Slater live on Earth 78 since the movie Superman premiered that year. How did you get there on earth 96? According to this perfectly reasonable theory, Cage lives on Earth 98 (the year filming was supposed to begin). Superman (George Reeve) and Jay Garrick were in one universe? I remember that they were seen in different universes. But it could also be that I'm wrong.--Sir Boromir (talk) 16:31, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

According to the Multiverse designations, Earth-96 is the Earth where the events of Christopher Reevee/Brandon Routh's Superman take place.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 01:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Reeves and Routh are two different Superman. If Routh was Reeves' official successor, he would have been shown alongside Helen Slater. But they chose Christopher. A separation of the two characters couldn't be shown any clearer. Reeves - Earth 78, Routh - Earth 96. It's like Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney. Three different Batman, three different earths.--Sir Boromir (talk) 08:09, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

It makes sense, in this case we can use as a placeholder differentiator something like "(Superman and Supergirl)" since it doesn't have a designation. I'll give a little more time to respond if necessary and then I'll start making the changes from actor differentiators to placeholders.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 03:53, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Universes designations and Timeline

Obviously SPOILERS: Just seen The Flash, I'm still not very clear about Michael Keaton's Batman phrase when he talked about time travel and universes, but I suspect he meant that Barry, by traveling through time, created a new world/timeline/universe? in which the past and the future changed totally. Its name is never mentioned as Flashpoint, and I think it should be called Flashpoint instead. Like "Batman (Flashpoint)", "Supergirl (Flashpoint)", "Flash (Flashpoint)", "Dru-Zod (Flashpoint)".

About the other universes and cameos, like Superman Reeves' universe, Superman Cage's universe, Batman West's universe, etc, as they mention it, are different universes. Yes they should be named with the nomenclature that we know so far of the Multiverse (arrowverse): Earth-78 and Earth-66; Cage's universe's name is unclear yet. If that is confusing, the ending is even worse, but I think I didn't understand the movie very well.

TIMELINE: I read a tweet of geekritique saying the film’s present day is set in Summer 2022 and Nora's death is set in June 2004 (I honestly don't know when or how did he get that). [1] The only date we know certainly is September 29 2013, but the year date is even confusing. Young Barry says he is 18 years old, but Actual Barry was born in 1992. This would make the September 29 date set in 2010 and not in 2013. However, as same as Batman, the past also changed, and his birthday could was some years after his actual birthday in main timeline.

Franklin J. Wayne (talk) 06:10, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

"Flashpoint" sounds like an ideal title, I support renaming all titles, including Supergirl. Regarding the timeline, I agree with the assumption that Barry's age has changed in the Flashpoint universe just like Batman, this would explain why the Black Zero Event date doesn't match with the original timeline. The present day of The Flash is definitely 2022 based on the descriptions of the McFarlane toys, but at the moment we can estimate the events in summer due to lack of evidence.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 20:20, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Here's my take: It's what they said in the film itself. Keaton's Bruce explained to Barry-1 that by using the Speed Force to alter the past, there was no branching point but the opposite of that - a convergence. Like a crossroads of two timelines; with two different pasts that converge into a new, distinct present. Because Barry saving his mom changed the DCEU's fixed history so much from 2004 to 2022, he broke the time-space continuum. (The Speed Force is tangentially connected to the 4th Dimension (aka the Timestream) that surrounds all Earths in the multiverse and their respected timelines.) This opened the doorway to other timelines within the Timestream which bled into the DCEU's as the Timestream attempting to correct itself - some of these other Earths having much different histories than the DCEU's, mind you. So it is simply not Earth-89, but rather an amalgamation of DCEU's history and Earth-89's, rewriting the paradoxes that came before 2004 in this merged timeline. So if you wanted to argue that Keaton's Batman and Kara came from Earth-89, that's a safe bet since their pasts doesn't correlate with DCEU Batman or Kara's. For how time corrected itself, that meant certain histories had to be erased from one of the two pasts before 2004 to fit this new timeline. Everything after that point (2004) is fated to happen unless the 'temporal knot' created around 2004 becomes untangled. Does that make sense? And I do want to say too, Barry-1's memories of his past are the DCEU's. He was living in Barry-2's timeline in the film, but Barry-1's comparisons in dialogue suggests his birth year hasn't changed since certain events like his exact age and the lightning strike still occurred at the same time. So thus the 1992 date we saw for his birth year prior is now 1995. Barry was 9 when his mom died in 2004, and was 18 in 2013.--BlindmelonKen (talk) 12:59, 18 June 2023 (UTC)BlindmelonKen

Having all the memories from the original line, Barry would continue to having born in 1992 and may have lost his mother at the age of 12, since as far as I remember it's only mentioned that Barry was 9 when his mother died in Justice League, which isn't canon. When Barry Allen creates this merged timeline between the DCEU and Earth-89, this in turn generates a universe where, just as the stories and ages of the characters change, it may be reasonable that in this collided universe, the Flashpoint Barry would have born in 1995, while Barry 1 would maintain his original age by coming from his original reality. I don't deny that Batman and Kara came from Earth-89, in fact Keaton's Batman has the experiences lived in Burton's movies, but they were in a reality that collided with the DCEU, so the separator in articles should be the same as the rest of Flashpoint events. As explained in the film, when an event is altered, the timeline in the future and in the past is changed, and the worlds begin to attract each other, so the alteration in 2004 changes the entire timeline, not just the subsequent events, this can be exemplified when it's mentioned that Top Gun (a past event) starred Kevin Bacon.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 21:24, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Probably a better way of explaining it than I did, to be honest. I acknowledged the different Earths' pasts converging, then tangling at a certain point before ultimately creating a new past - but your wording makes it less complicated than mine. Also, I had forgotten the age 9 line was only in the original 2017 Justice League film. Thanks for pointing that out. Although when Barry is at the dinner table talking to his mom and dad, right before Barry-2 shows up, he asks his mother "What's been going on the past 18 years" (he still thinks it's 2022 at this point), implying his original timeline memories of his mother dying still occurred in 2004. As for his actual age in the original timeline flashbacks, I guess that's still up for debate. --BlindmelonKen (talk) 21:50, 19 June 2023 (UTC)BlindmelonKen

Single timeline article for the Flashpoint reality

I think rather than making separate years of the Flashpoint universe like 2013 (Flashpoint), the events for that universe should be contained in one article. It won't be too long.

Metropolisknight (talk) 08:25, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Articles like 2013 can be filled out enough to stop being stubs, same with 2000s by listing Barry's altered events in 2004 and all the references to real world releases, but for earlier events, I think we can tie it all together in one article listing what happened during the 20th century.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 01:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)